Video Games

cthulhu · Post by **cthulhu** » Thu May 07, 2009 4:30 am

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the price diffential is the really big issue.

A gaming rig is, inevitably, 1.5 to 2 grand.

A PS3 is what? A bit less than 700?

Disclaimer: all prices Australian

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Thu May 07, 2009 8:51 am

cthulhu wrote:You know that the users have pirated copies have caused the games matchmaking service to be unusable since release in a multiplayer only game?

No dice. The real problem as of mere days after the launch is the immense difficulty in getting the damn thing to P2P connect with the other players. Like you mentioned in a one liner later in the thread. Its hard enough as is and incorrectly documented. Even worse, most people don't know enough to forward ports and open firewalls properly. Then theres the crashes when the game can't connect to someone. The code is bad and the usability is low. Any lost sales aren't from piracy, its from paying customers going about the place telling people not to buy a game where the networking doesn't work. I was doing just that until I managed to get the damn thing going.

cthulhu wrote:I even said the online only games are common in steam, literally 1 comma and 2 words after the point you seem to be rebutting with the online only argument - why would you even do that? I already made that argument. Aggressively agreeing with me doesn't rebutt my point.

I'm rebutting the fist part. Difficulty of cracking has nothing to do with stopping piracy. Any mention of it is a red herring.

cthulhu · Post by **cthulhu** » Thu May 07, 2009 11:05 pm

Nooo, the licensed software they had purchased from a third party is capable of doing it by being brokered by master servers, and their plan was just to wack a few more on when they shipped some copies.

However, it was unable to scale sufficiently so the broker servers overloaded, and the fall back methods don't work - and they have so many users that they cannot scale their existing method to the traffic load, so they need an entirely new one.

As for point two, I'm not so sure I agree, I just compare the piracy rate of cod4 amongst the sample space of 'gamers I know' which is admittedly only 40ish to hl2. Now, that is not scientific or anything, but yeah.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu May 14, 2009 6:21 am

So, what's with all of the hatred the Nintendo Wii has been getting?

I own a Sexbox Circle and a Nintendo Penis and I love owning both of them.

You know, I just don't understand console wars. Ever since the Genesis/SNES came out I've loved and owned (either new or second-hand) pretty much every major videogame console except for a Playstation 3, and that one is only because I can't find one under four-hundred bucks even at the pawn shop.

Akula · Post by **Akula** » Thu May 14, 2009 7:05 am

It's making too much money by not making games for you and people like you. I own one and I have a damn hard time finding games I want for the damn thing. While that could also be said for other platforms, there is a serious dearth of quality games for the Wii. Mostly because the damn motion sensor isn't actually sensitive enough to be relied upon completely, while at the same time making the controls less functional from a traditional standpoint. Then you have the positive mania for silly and flow-breaking Wiimote acrobatics in every game. It just ends with a frustrating and limiting console whose primary feature is awesome if you want to cook with your game system, but isn't even useful for a racing or fighting game.

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Thu May 14, 2009 7:59 am

Keyboard and mouse > pretty much every input device for pretty much every game. Joysticks are better for vehicle sims. Console games have always been limited by their lame controls and thats why they suck.

Murtak · Post by **Murtak** » Thu May 14, 2009 8:03 am

Draco_Argentum wrote:Keyboard and mouse > pretty much every input device for pretty much every game. Joysticks are better for vehicle sims. Console games have always been limited by their lame controls and thats why they suck.

I dunno, I like controllers for Beat 'em ups or rather, any game where I need to movy a character around (but don't need to turn rapidly) and where I need about half a dozen buttons but not (many) more. And I can't imagine playing Kingdom Hearts with anything but a controller. Shooters on the other hand I can't imagine playing with anything but a mouse.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu May 14, 2009 8:06 am

It actually offends me that Disgaea and Final Fantasy Tactics don't have mouse support and a PC port. The games would run at least twice as fast with that change alone.

-Username17

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu May 14, 2009 9:23 am

You know, the ending to Final Fantasy VIII is complete fucking bullshit. This is literally the stupidest possible ending I have ever seen for a video game--and I have survived the endings to La Mulana, Chrono Cross, Neverwinter Nights 2, and Final Fantasy Tactics!

How fucking retarded do you have to be to go out of your way to ensure that what you were trying to prevent actually happens?! Remember, the whole point they went through that bullshit Time Compression scheme instead of, oh, I don't know, destroying the machine that allowed Ultimecia to possess Ellone was to kill off Ultimecia for good! So we go to her motherfucking castle and fight the sorcereresses she possesses in the past or future or whatthefuckever, see dozens of SeeDs get mercilessly slaughtered, and then have a big final battle!

We actually went through the ridiculously screwy plot of killing Ultimecia and some weird time shit (DO NOT ASK) and Squall gets transported back in time to the orphanage. Then Edea basically rolls over and lets Ultimecia possess her, making the entire goddamn plot of the game completely pointless! And as the crowning bit of stupidity for that, we find out that Squall is the one who gave Edea the idea of inventing SeeD in the first place. It's like the game is intentionally rubbing it's messed-up temporal physics in your face.

Goddamn! This game really hurts your brain if you put more than a moment's thought to it!

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu May 14, 2009 11:18 am

And you know what? While we're on the subject, the assassination sequence is just one big Fuck You to the player. Let me count the ways in which it is retarded.

1) The plan involves trapping Edea between two gates so Irvine can snipe her. Okay, WHY THE GATE? All it would do is alert her that something is going on! And guess what, it does! Why can't these stupid fucks just snipe her without the goddamn gate?! All it does is make it so that when Irvine chokes (more on that later) that Edea knows what they're up to and can mount a defense!

2) The plan involves sniping in the first place, which is totally unnecessary considering that Rinoa can just waltz up to her and the President without encountering any guards. Why not just bring the whole team crashing into the gate?! There are six of you motherfuckers along with anyone else you want to bring! Seifer wasn't even there at the time--why can't you just attack her there?

3) The reason why Rinoa actually went up to Edea was retarded in the first place. See, earlier when SeeD was planning this mission Rinoa had the idea to slap some kind of power limiting bracelet on Edea's wrist. When Quistis rightfully rejects the plan as fucking stupid and tells her they're not doing this, this resistance leader throws a baby tantrum and tries to do her plan anyway. And what does her plan consist of? Waltzing into Edea's office and trying to use her convince Edea to put it on... EVEN THOUGH RINOA IS PART OF THE RESISTANCE MOVEMENT OPPOSING HER AND IN FACT HER PRESENCE WAS NOTED BY BOTH THE PRESIDENT AND LIVE FUCKING TELEVISION. To my great delight Edea telekinetically bitchslaps Rinoa for this.

4) Quistis, who was in charge of activating the gate for this retarded plan, leaves her post minutes before Edea comes in range so she can crawl across some sewers and apologize what a meaniepants she was being to Rinoa! So someone else has to shut the gate!

5) Quistis's dumb ass gets locked into RINOA'S DAD'S HOUSE which requires her to search for a secret exit. ... even though we see some bigass windows in the room.

6) When, miraculously, the plan still manages to stay on the rails long enough for Irvine (the sniper) to take the shot, Irvine breaks down and cries to Squall that he can't perform under pressure--so Edea stares into the direction the sniping team is at while Squall has to give Irvine a pep talk to take the shot anyway.

... and after Irvine takes the shot and Edea, get this, actually puts up a shield and deflects the shot this little wussbag has to break down AGAIN and start whining to Squall about what a fuckup he is, which causes Squall to have to initiate Plan B... run up and jump on Edea's float and kill her.

Is it any wonder Edea shoves a fucking shard of ice through his lungs and schedules them for torture? You know, it's immensely satisfying when people actually pay for being this stupid. And when Zell was beaten into the fetal position and kicked repeatedly by the guards? Yessssss!!

... though, how in the name of FUCKING SHIT did Quistis/Selphie/Zell, who weren't even fighting Edea, get captured and thrown in jail alongside Squall but Rinoa and Irvine who WERE fighting alongside Squall not get captured?

Dumbshit game.

Parthenon · Post by **Parthenon** » Thu May 14, 2009 1:23 pm

I dislike keyboard and mouse for trying to get analogue movement. When I'm trying to move slowly I'd rather move the thumbstick a small amount in the right direction than to hold down another button and press the keys normally. I can't see how something like Splinter Cell's stealth could be fun on a PC.

Things like Super Monkey Ball are impossible on a PC for example. Oh and I absolutely hate WASD.

I agree that there are a huge number of games that work better with a mouse, mostly where you select things or look with it, but even some puzzle games work just as well with a control pad.

Count Arioch the 28th · Thu May 14, 2009 2:49 pm

More on FF8 bullshit:

The entire attack sequence on Galbadia GARDEN.

Squall is 100% right that he cannot risk the lives of however many students to save FF8's version of Paris Hilton, and yet people call him names for it.

Rinoa is pretty useless. Sure, she has slightly higher than average stats, but it's so easy to boost your stats to obscene levels it honestly doesn't matter if she's about ten points ahead of everyone else.

Fable 2:

First off, the game isn't hard enough, and yet too hard in other places. The shooting range mini-game is almost unplayable due to the crappy controls and there not being an actual difference between the bandits and the townsfolk, they both look like indistinct brownish blobs. Also, the controls switch from being not sensistive enough to too sensitive too often.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Thu May 14, 2009 8:25 pm

The ending of FF8 does not show Edea being possessed by Ultimecia. It shows her inheriting Ultimecia's powers.

Chronologically this leads her to found SeeD. She gets possessed much later.

Also in the late-game Rinoa is one of the better characters. She can make you goddamn invincible, and her dog sometimes does stuff when she's not even in limit, so she makes a good healer/support character. And Angel Wings are abuseable if you know what you're doing.

Sir Neil · Post by **Sir Neil** » Thu May 14, 2009 8:26 pm

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197343/28926

"The "happy ending" implies Ultimecia's threat is now over, but in fact it can never be over for them. Ultimecia's reign is only at an end in the future, for Squall and the others; her coming to be is inevitable. For only by allowing Ultimecia compress time can they throw her back into the past and cause the establishment of SeeD and Garden.

This is why Ellone and Laguna allow Ultimecia to achieve Time Compression, only by doing so can they bring SeeD and Garden into being. Some people have openly questioned why the risk of allowing Time Compression was done, well if our heroes had found a way to stop Ultimecia without Time Compressing, then SeeD and Garden don't exist anymore! And if they didn't exist, then they couldn't have brought about the events that prevented them coming into existence, so they must still exist!"

WTF?

shau · Post by **shau** » Thu May 14, 2009 9:20 pm

I pretty much gave up on the story of FF8 when it was revealed that all the main characters were raised in the same orphanage. I tend to be really lenient on RPG stories, as all JRPG fans have to be, but that was so unbelievable that the whole thing pretty much jumped the shark for me right there.

Was it ever explained why Squall became the person in charge of the garden? Wasn't he a new recruit whose only notably feature was his extreme aloofness?

cthulhu · Post by **cthulhu** » Fri May 15, 2009 1:30 am

Parthenon wrote:I dislike keyboard and mouse for trying to get analogue movement. When I'm trying to move slowly I'd rather move the thumbstick a small amount in the right direction than to hold down another button and press the keys normally. I can't see how something like Splinter Cell's stealth could be fun on a PC.

Things like Super Monkey Ball are impossible on a PC for example. Oh and I absolutely hate WASD.

I agree that there are a huge number of games that work better with a mouse, mostly where you select things or look with it, but even some puzzle games work just as well with a control pad.

I dunno, thief was really fun on a PC, so its clearly possible.

The basic problem is 3rd person games are quite irritating whenever you have to shoot something and don't have a mouse + keyboard. Playing resident evil 5 at the moment, and my god one of the main challenges is accurately shooting people in the head while being artifically crippled by an xbox controller. Blergh.

Oh, and the annoying companion AI. There are two settings: Fire your best gun really fast or fire your worst gun really slowly.

While setting A is great for boss fights, it is totally useless the rest of the time, and as your worst gun never, ever, ever 1 shot kills anything, why doesn't she fire it a bit more aggressively?!?!?

Instead what she does is fire 1 pistol shot at the zombie about to claw your nipples off and then stand there for a bit while it does claw your nipples off instead of firing the second shot which would actually kill it, forcing you to fire your shotgun at it, which would have one shot it anyway. I've played flash games with better combat AI.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Fri May 15, 2009 1:56 am

I think that's a pretty common complaint about RE5. Zero Punctuation complained about it, my cousin was complaining about it while I watched him fight that mutant bat-bug boss, and you just did it now. And a couple of other places besides.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Fri May 15, 2009 2:16 am

Now I find myself reminded of Second Sight. It was the first time I encountered sub-targeting in a game (lock onto a target, then aim within the lock-on circle if you want a headshot) That was a fun game, for all that I ended up getting the Gamecube version in the end (I particularly liked the point where you actually understand what was happening in all the level-specific Game Over cutscenes). However, it was also a fairly easy game. I did not play it in anything harder than Normal, so it was mostly a lark.

The problems of analog stick-based control diminish in a game where sloppy attacks like telekinesis are viable and you've got decent lock-on targeting.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Fri May 15, 2009 3:55 am

FF8 works in the complete reverse to how RPGs (specifically, FF games) work:

1. Never cast spells. You should be storing those and junctioning them to your stats to boost them.

2. Avoid levelling up at all costs. As soon as you can Card enemies, Card EVERYTHING. You still get the "level up the GF" points, but avoid getting XP. All monsters level up as you do, and end up getting even more hardcore than you, so just have strong GFs and transmute all cards into spells which you junction to your stats.

-Note that this means stormtroopering is bad. Instead, you should attempt to speed-run a lot of it. And the very instant you get that lamp you should activate it, because Diablos will actually be an easier battle the earlier you fight him.

3. Don't even fight things for cash - you get paid a salary and monsters don't drop money. Besides, anything you can buy you can just get from cards. EXCEPT THAT FUCKING TRAIN TICKET.

There are probably many many more things.

RandomCasualty2 · Post by **RandomCasualty2** » Fri May 15, 2009 6:12 am

Yeah FF8 just sucked.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Fri May 15, 2009 6:43 am

So I just played Half-Life 1 for the first time.

Holy shit! This game is way harder and more intense (in terms of making my heart rush) than any shooter I've played in the last, well, very long time.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri May 15, 2009 8:46 am

Boolean wrote:The ending of FF8 does not show Edea being possessed by Ultimecia. It shows her inheriting Ultimecia's powers.

Ultimecia keeps reincarnating because people keep having her sorceress powers.

If the impetus for her possession (namely, people with sorceress powers) doesn't get removed, then guess what? Ultimecia isn't defeated; at some unspecified time in the future Ultimecia returns, rendering the entire fucking adventure pointless.

Even when you go to the future and kick her ass, it still doesn't do donkey dick because as long as there are people who have the sorceress powers she can still come back! The only way you can take her out is to kill everyone who has the sorceress bloodline, an option the game went out of its way to sabotage.

Goddamn! This game is almost as bad as Chrono Cross. Actually, when you think about it, it has a lot of the same problems. A 'large' world that is a combination of essentially the same small reference pools some screwy scenery just because. A cast of secondary characters who are completely unimportant to the plot at large. A plot that ends with you not solving any of the problems you tried to fight in the first place. Plot points are introduced/hinted at with no resolution whatsoever like the ZORG thing, the Galbadian empire thing, the Breastless Sorceress Adel, the racist treatment of Moombas, and Laguna's rebellion. And it's all wrapped up in a battle system that's completely counterintuitive to how jRPGs are supposed to be played. Guess what, when you remove the sole reason to follow the core gameplay--that is, grind random battles to advance through the game--it actually makes people want to avoid large portions of your game!

Let's take a game with a good battle system, like Secret of Mana. I actually go out of my way to fight enemies in that game. It's not a complicated battle system but it keeps me engaged. As long as the plot is moving at a noticable clip I don't feel the grind. Or let's take a good jRPG with a not-so-good battle system, like Final Fantasy IV. While battles in that game are repetitive, they're at least not pointless. When you go up the Tower of Zot and are fighting battle after battle in the same damn corrider, at least you're getting stronger! I mean, how could they fuck this up this bad?

Well, at least FF8's plot was easy to follow, even though it was completely stupid. And it didn't go out of it's way to spray its syphilis-infected manslime all over the canon and tone of previous games. And it did have some genuinely funny moments. Final Fantasy 8 also had a relatively greater variety of music, even though the range is actually rather poor compared to other Final Fantasies--even Final Fantasy Mystic Quest.

Then again, FF8 did have an overwrought and insipid love story to it. Chrono Cross's was just shallow and insipid but if you just ignored all of the shit with Harle and Kidd and Leena/Feena to it (which was easy to do) you could concentrate on the real stuff. Namely, Lucca burning to death in an orphanage. Holy shit, what the fuck were they thinking? Who could possibly think that was a good idea? That's like making a comic where it's revealed that the Transformers are pedophiles!

... wait, what's this about KISS players? Oh Lawd.

Anyway, I could rant all day about how bad these games are. Final Fantasy 8 is piss-awful but it doesn't actively piss me off thinking about it. It's sort of like the 4th Edition of D&D. Chrono Cross is more the Andy Collins/Ed Stark 3.5 Edition of D&D.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri May 15, 2009 7:33 pm

If all of time is compressed, and then you kill Ultimecia, shouldn't she therefore be gone from the entire timeline? You didn't kill her just as some point in the future, you killed her at *every* point.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri May 15, 2009 8:33 pm

If all of time is compressed, and then you kill Ultimecia, shouldn't she therefore be gone from the entire timeline? You didn't kill her just as some point in the future, you killed her at *every* point.

The ending shows Ultimecia's spirit inhabiting Edea as Matron way-back-when and giving her the sorceress powers. So no, she's not gone from every timeline. The game creates a stable time loop to ensure that the events you went through are inevitable. And since what causes Ultimecia to come back is someone having the sorceress bloodline you don't kill her in every or even any timeline.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sun May 17, 2009 7:07 pm

I just know that one of you guys know a good one-player dungeon crawler RPG.

I don't care what kind of sub-genre it is, as long as it's single-player, isn't ridiculously hard, and has a lot of character customization. I don't mind difficulty in most games but in an RPG it just ends up pissing me off. I'm looking at you, Wizardry.